What is Mathematics? - an addendum to the comments between Talbert and Maggot

GSTalbert1

Girlvinyl
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
6,754
Location
The Land of the Coon-Ass
I forgot to mention that the Greeks believed the infinitesimals, the points, were divine. I think the arguements with Zeno were not about motion per-say. The Greeks viewed these numbers to be sacred and even drowned a man for speaking the blasphemy of irrational numbers. The main drive, I believe, for greek appreciation of numbers has to do with the fact they are a virtue society unlike, say, the Semitic conception of the world. Thus competition is sacred, there has to be the best. Thus there has to be a perfect triangle with points for which there can be no better. A point that is impossible to "one up" something.
 

Tod_Geiger

Dramacrat
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
257
I forgot to mention that the Greeks believed the infinitesimals, the points, were divine. I think the arguements with Zeno were not about motion per-say. The Greeks viewed these numbers to be sacred and even drowned a man for speaking the blasphemy of irrational numbers. The main drive, I believe, for greek appreciation of numbers has to do with the fact they are a virtue society unlike, say, the Semitic conception of the world. Thus competition is sacred, there has to be the best. Thus there has to be a perfect triangle with points for which there can be no better. A point that is impossible to "one up" something.



this is not completely true,
as book 10 of the Elements contains a formal theory of irrational numbers,
due to eudoxus of cnidus (if i recall right. my math teacher was boring)
 

GSTalbert1

Girlvinyl
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
6,754
Location
The Land of the Coon-Ass
this is not completely true,
as book 10 of the Elements contains a formal theory of irrational numbers,
due to eudoxus of cnidus (if i recall right. my math teacher was boring)
I suppose because all numbers consist of 4 points, two lines against one another. Then Irrational numbers would merely those whose 4 pointed proportions do not line up in comprehensible harmony, hence the blasphemy. But I don't speak greek.

I also think some of the issue w modern science is the illogically dated system of taxonomy. One of my RLF and I were talking about this. Mathematics is the communication of proportion, physics is the study of proportion.
 

GSTalbert1

Girlvinyl
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
6,754
Location
The Land of the Coon-Ass
http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/bookX/propX10.html

Let A be the assigned straight line.

It is required to find two straight lines incommensurable, the one in length only, and the other in square also, with A.

Set out two numbers B and C which do not have to one another the ratio which a square number has to a square number, that is, which are not similar plane numbers, and let it be contrived that B is to C as the square on A is to the square on D, for we have learned how to do this.

Therefore the square on A is commensurable with the square on D.

And, since B does not have to C the ratio which a square number has to a square number, therefore neither has the square on A to the square on D the ratio which a square number has to a square number, therefore A is incommensurable in length with D.

Take a mean proportional E between A and D. Then A is to D as the square on A is to the square on E.

But A is incommensurable in length with D, therefore the square on A is also incommensurable with the square on E. Therefore A is incommensurable in square with E.

Therefore two straight lines D and E have been found incommensurable, D in length only, and E in square and of course in length also, with the assigned straight line A.

also:

Turing: If one takes Frege's symbolism and gives someone the technique of multiplying in it, then by Russell Paradox he could get a wrong multiplication.
This is how they invented economics.
 

GSTalbert1

Girlvinyl
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
6,754
Location
The Land of the Coon-Ass
On the matter of translations. There should be a wiki series of translations. The wiki is sort of a Talmud anyway, hence the relevance of the converso between the roman and the rabbi. The wiki would give a translation and there would be various versions and the best version wins. With three synacronystic sources you could ya know challenge the usage and propose a change. Would make it easier. I want to know about Aristotle's conception of the sound of wheat. I don't speak Greeks.
 

GSTalbert1

Girlvinyl
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
6,754
Location
The Land of the Coon-Ass
Not to argue or preach woo, just a really neat passage on the ancient symbolism of prime numbers (woo I do not believe has been properly banished from the lecture halls, unfortunately IMO):

Seven is, of course, the perfect number, the mystic number, even as three; and all must be done by odd numbers.
From the spell cast by a witch to summon back her lover "Numero deus impare gaudet... - Heaven adores unequal numbers..." ~ Virgilio, Egloghe, VIII, 75

I just love this shit, can't get enough of it. Thought you may like it too @CallMeMaggot
 

GSTalbert1

Girlvinyl
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
6,754
Location
The Land of the Coon-Ass
Go for the kabbalah if u like that shit, it's like +9000 power circlejerk on that
I think the Kabbalah is a bit of Persian gobbeldegook mix with Hebrew culture.

Most of the orthodox hebrew use of these number tricks have to do with mnemonic tricks for creating eidetic memory as well as poetic sense via intuitive proportion. They also have to do a lot of astronomy to know when is the proper time to hold festivals, Astrology depends because it's left open. I'm positive that Newton, who was at Dr. Rice levels of occult obsession, only rejected astrology because Maimonides fucking hated it. Maimonides fucking hated it because he was engaged in a slap fight flame war with a rival school of thought in Jerusalem headed by Ezra who was a famous Astrologer.

Newton was obsessed with the Jews, especially Maimonides, and there's a strong connection between him and Spinoza & Leibniz. It's like Hume's racism, he discards the biases and the prejudices he WANTS to get rid of but not the ones he likes. You figure out the framework they are slaves to and by starting with their errors you can actually see what they are saying.

But there are strong similarities in the use of the number one million seems in Egyptian as well as Hebrew society - the Egyptian symbol for 1 million is a man in amazement (Egyptians had two sets of notation - one for poetic usage and another for the scribes for taxation, architecture and distributive utility functions).

I'm trying to narrow in on differences between Indo-European conception of numbers and that of Semitic.
 

Tod_Geiger

Dramacrat
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
257
I'm trying to narrow in on differences between Indo-European conception of numbers and that of Semitic.
I'm pretty sure you mean Egyptian
ps. proto-semitic would imply sumerian though
 

GSTalbert1

Girlvinyl
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
6,754
Location
The Land of the Coon-Ass
I'm pretty you mean Egyptian
ps. proto-semitic would imply sumerian though
Thank you, yes that is true by blood!

In the Bible I noticed glancing similarities to some Babylonian mathematics customs. I'm terribly ignorant on a shit ton of this. I'm more interested in my mistakes. So the Babylonian weird thing with the thousands of years and what not for the reigns of kings. What the fuck is going on there? Are they referring to individuals or a succession of individuals or is there a secondary or special proportion used in addition to the 60/60 thing to describe the divine king's life? I suppose you could try to sync it up with contemporary sources but I'm not sure there are any for that period.
 

GSTalbert1

Girlvinyl
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
6,754
Location
The Land of the Coon-Ass
Oh, and so far as Math being political, I read something by Hannah Arendt awhile back, and fuck all if I can remember what it was, but Imma see if I can find it, because it was about the nature of what constitutes a "political action", and it was good, and apt to this conversation.
Did you ever find it? You said it was aptly good.
 
Top