My legal opinion on the Shahn LOLsuit

I have received numerous PMs concerning this supposed lawsuit. This is my legal opinion. If you are truly concerned, you should talk to an attorney in person for a second opinion. Again, this is my opinion. I am relying on my experience, as well as FRCP (federal rules of civil procedure).

Yes, i am an attorney. I am barred in PA (2009, inactive status right now since i don't live there anymore) and AZ (active since 2010). I'm also a member of the US District Court of AZ, and the 9th circuit (West coast states).

The lawsuit that he filed in the District Court NY is fairly common; that is just where he lives, and probably hired some new attorneys who will file anything and everything. The suit that was filed is so copy and paste that it really almost looks like one of my Civil Procedure law school exams. It really is extremely basic, citing FRCP 1300's that have to do with PJ (personal jurisdiction) and FQ (federal question). Defamation and Libel are all and good, however, the way i read it is that the basis of the lawsuit for Jurisdictional Purposes are the Copyright issues. Copyright is the domain of federal law, hence why it is in federal court. Of course it's been a while since i've done Civil Procedure, but i still have my book and my notes. It's actually quite basic when it comes down to it.

If he claims he has a hearing to subpoena their IPs from their email accounts, i don't think this makes a whole lot of sense.

1. Federal Courts are slow as shit. For him to file the suit to getting to a subpoena phase is highly unlikely. Unless the US District Court of NY is hurting for cases, i highly doubt he would be seen so soon.

2. Subpoenas are a difficult process to say the least. First, he would need to figure out John/Jane Doe 1-20's IP addresses, each and every one of them. He could get a subpoena to figure that out, but where do you start? He'd need a subpoena for ED, then assuming the court grants that, he's just have a list of addresses. Then he'd need to figure out which each IP address points to. He'd have to subpoena 20 different billion dollar, multi national companies.

3. Assume this process happens. This is also assuming that Comcast, Sprint, Time Warner, Verizon, whoever each user uses for Internet actually complies with a subpoena from some random court, he then has to find out who the actual individual behind each IP address is.

4. If this happened, he would then need to file separate lawsuits in every single case in every single jurisdiction. If there are any foreigners involved, good luck with that. International jurisdiction is almost fucking impossible, and in cases where there is product liability and people fucking DIED (Helicopteros V. Hall) the courts said tough shit. He would need to figure out every single John Doe 1 - 20 and sue them in the appropriate courts, make sure each person's state has a proper Long Arm statute, and then allege a FRCP rule (again, Damages over 75k or a federal question) in EVERY CASE. Again, highly unlikely.

5. As we have seen over the past few years, these ISPs have basically told the US Government, the most power entity on the planet, to go fuck themselves when faced with these subpoenas. This is serious shit having to do with Terrorists. The courts take this VERY seriously, and probably would have a hard time granting a subpoena. They will grant subpoenas for law enforcement purposes, but this is civil.

6. This is prohibitively expensive. Private attorneys usually have a fee agreement that says "ill do X for X amount of money. If it goes beyond that, I'll charge another X for X amount of work", etc.

7. Assume that everything goes his way. He gets his subpoenas, he gets his IP addresses, ISPs roll over and give up personal information, he tracks down where the Ip addresses are from. How does prove you, the individual, are the person behind the IP address? User names don't mean shit. He'd have to prove in court that you are your user name, and that your IP was matched to your home computer.

8. This would take an ungodly amount of time, money, and resources. He is trying to scare everyone.

9. The appropriate response to every single interrogatory (negative to each one) is that the court should dismiss this case for a lack of personal jurisdiction pursuant to Rule 12b of the FRCP.

Thats all i can think of right now after 2 scotches. He is trying scare tactics. If the editors of his site are truly concerened, just take down whatever he is bitching about video wise.

The beauty of Libel is that it's one of the few instances where the burden of proof is on the plaintiff to prove the claims aren't true. Libel cases are notoriously difficult to prove. Also "publication" is a legal term that means that the offending comment was overheard/conveyed by a second party - not necessarily the common definition of being printed on paper.

If you are interested, check it out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_jurisdiction

What would you say would have to be on the article that would push the legal envelope? What would actually be a legal concern? Is it legal for oddguy to profit from any legal actions taken against ED?

As a lawyer, you are saying we should just piss him off more for the lulz?

lol pussies

I remember one article where some guy posted dox and a huge alert on the page to the effect of "if you fuck with this guy, we will pay you!"

It was removed but I suppose something like that could be taken to court; not before jumping through some major hoops of course.

Sorry. I have been in San Diego since Friday. I'll reply tomorrow. I am tired as shit and i need booze

You're like Popeye but instead of spinach it's booze.

Apparently, Shahn had a hearing on Friday to subpoena their IP addresses from their email accounts: https://www.facebook.com/groups/EMHS1993/permalink/10152581887768800/

I'm still confused as to what this hearing will be. Again, my expertise isnt civil - it's criminal. The court could order ISPs to turn over IP addresses, but again, he'd need to find out the ISPs of John/Jane doe 1 - 20. It's a chicken/egg type of thing.

Email addresses, hosting accounts, and websites.

I think what this means is he's trying to subpoena ED to release user IP addresses. Good luck.

There's also that other forum he mentioned in the lolsuit, I don't know how they operate but he'll probably have a better chance with them than with ED, which doesn't fall under US jurisdiction.

Even after he pulls IP addresses the real challenge is linking (without any plausible deniability) the individual to the IP.

Copyright trolls have been beating their head against that brick wall for years, I don't know what makes him think he'll do any better. I'm sure his lawyers are filling his head with all kinds of nonsense.

Libel is a notoriously difficult thing to prove. If it is in fact true, then there is no issue. I think short of calling him a child molester is fine.

What do you mean profit from any legal action taken against ED? Lawyers are expensive!

Ive dealt with plenty of attorneys who are more than willing to take your money, tell you that you have no chance, and then stop their representation. What Shaun is trying to accomplish is extremely difficult and extremely expensive.

Ultimately, the question is "what is the remedy?", IE what does he want out of the case. Does he want money? Does he want the page taken down? He'll never get the money he is looking for. The article will be there forever thanks to archiving. It looks like, at best, a Pyrrhic victory.

Better call Lulzyer!

The funny thing is he could have just asked for the article to be taken down. Since I've been here I've seen at least 20 articles removed under the pretense of "asking nicely."

Someone deleted the Shahn Christian Andersen article.

https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Shahn_Christian_Andersen

What's up with that?

The other forum is hosted in Texas but I believe the site admin Dameon is from Singapore (good luck suing him lol). Worst that ever happened was the site was suspended for a day by the hosting company after the DMCA claim and then the admin switched to another one. I think if the web host was Russia based then the site would have even less to worry about.